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Steve, This is from Judi under "johnnie degrand"....I have no idea what you
are refering to. The answer you attached to the message from Martin, which
I had answered has nothing to do with religion. I do not want to even be a
part of an email that has gone out to the whole list, that says anything
against God or religion. Martin was wondering why so many of us prefer our
own home remedies rather than accepting what the Dr's say. And I answered
him that the Dr's don't have any cures for this and so I am willing to try
anything else. I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING AGAINST GOD!!! Ihave faith and I
believe in God please don not put me on a page where you say that I don't.
Judi
----------
> From: Steve <snickell.dev(AT)hsutx.edu>
> To: Johnnie DeGrand <jdegrand(AT)up.net>
> Cc: tmic-list(AT)eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: Magnets and Other Magical Tricks
> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 5:18 PM
>
> Johnnie DeGrand wrote:
> >
> > Martin, I have always been willing to listen to our Dr's advice...he
> > just doesn't have any advice that has worked. There is no cure for
> > TM, just supportive treatment. Well I for one am not willing to have
> > my son on pain killers the rest of his life. They don't fix anything,
> > they just mask the pain. And a back brace for the curve in his spine
> > just leaves him not being able to cath himself or transfer himself,
> > but the chiropractic techniques have been helping. Our Dr's have been
> > wonderful in explaining what is wrong and through listening to all of
> > these great people on the list and doing research ourselves we have
> > come up with different things that really help. Judi
> > ----------
> > > From: bibow <bibow(AT)concentric.net>
> > > To: Gunny0011 <Gunny0011(AT)aol.com>; tmic-list(AT)eskimo.com
> > > Subject: Re: Magnets and Other Magical Tricks
> > > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 8:29 AM
> > >
> > > This is pretty funny.......... you're not willing to listen to a
> > medial
> > > doctor's (neurologist?) guesses and strategies, but you have no
> > problems
> > > coming up with theories and remedies yourself!
> > > To follow that logic, you should also trust yourself to diagnose
> > your PC
> > > when it stops working, because it was fixed before by a computer
> > > technician but it broke again. Wow........
> > > I still am dumbfounded by the general jest that modern medicine &
> > > science is uninterested and/or incapable in helping solving the TM
> > > puzzle, and that somehow we need to find our own methods of
> > treatment.
> > > Sure, we all have different "tricks" that work for us, but it is
> > > unreasonable to look for confidence in hocus-pocus. Before you all
> > get
> > > bent out of shape over the inadequacies of modern medicine and
> > science,
> > > please answer my question: where would human health stand were it
> > not
> > > for research and science? Would you prefer we go back to blood
> > letting
> > > or maybe healing by prayer?
> > >
> > > Besides, your improvement/recovery is typical for people diagnosed
> > with
> > > TM. But it is of course your right to contribute it to sticking
> > magnets
> > > in your shorts! LOL
> > >
> > > All The Best,
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > Personally, I think our best bet is to work with international input
> > > from medicine & science, make sure we get multiple opinions, and
> > combine
> > > that information with our own reasoning to come up with what makes
> > > sense. But most importantly: Every day remind yourself that life
> > goes
> > > on, making it worth living and making damn sure we identify
> > ourselves as
> > > anything but "victims" of anything. Shit happens, but so does
> > happiness.
> > >
> Now wait a minute, here.
> I have no idea what you all are talking about. There seems to be this
> fiction circulating among atheists that somehow people turn to God when
> tragedy happens; they get "Scared into Religion" as someone so
> eloquently put it. This may be true, but isn't it a straw man? Aren't
> you saying that fear motivates these people; when fear is removed, the
> religiosity will vanish as well; therefore, there is no God?
> This, as I'm sure you are aware, is a fallacy of logic.
> I came to believe in God when I was 16 years old. I was a drug-abuser,
> a gang member, and a member of a "family." I didn't need any crutch,
> and not much scares me. Not even TM. No one did (or could) manipulate
> me, or scare me, into becoming a Christian. I decided to believe.
> Soon after, I suffered an asthma attack during which my HR was over
> 300, my ETCO2 was 80, BP showed "error," and I was dead when I reached
> the hospital. That's dead. Kaput. No heart rate. No pulse or
> cardio-eloctrologram. Flatliner. My dad, who had rushed to the
> hospital, came in the room when the docs were about to pack it up. He
> prayed for me. And now, here I sit.
> Or maybe I'm just silly.
> Maybe what really should have happened was that one of those stupid
> doctors should have laid a magnet on my chest and chanted a few bars of
> "It's Magic." Instead, they told me that it was a miracle. The doctors
> told me. And they were pretty much all atheists...up to that point.
> Yes, this is unusually caustic. But you say it's "silly" to pray, yet
> sensible to trust a chunk of molecularly aligned ferrous oxide? Just
> goes to show that we all have our gods.
>
> Steve
>
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Steve, This is from Judi under =
"johnnie degrand"....I have no idea what you are refering to. =
The answer you attached to the message from Martin, which I had =
answered has nothing to do with religion. I do not want to even be =
a part of an email that has gone out to the whole list, that says =
anything against God or religion. Martin was wondering why so many =
of us prefer our own home remedies rather than accepting what the Dr's =
say. And I answered him that the Dr's don't have any cures for =
this and so I am willing to try anything else. I DID NOT SAY =
ANYTHING AGAINST GOD!!! Ihave faith and I believe in God please =
don not put me on a page where you say that I don't. =
Judi
----------
> From: Steve <snickell.dev(AT)hsutx.edu>
> To: Johnnie DeGrand <jdegrand(AT)up.net>
> Cc: tmic-list(AT)eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: Magnets and Other Magical =
Tricks
> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 5:18 PM
>
> =
Johnnie DeGrand wrote:
> >
> > Martin, I have always =
been willing to listen to our Dr's advice...he
> > just doesn't =
have any advice that has worked. There is no cure for
> > =
TM, just supportive treatment. Well I for one am not willing to =
have
> > my son on pain killers the rest of his life. They =
don't fix anything,
> > they just mask the pain. And a =
back brace for the curve in his spine
> > just leaves him not =
being able to cath himself or transfer himself,
> > but the =
chiropractic techniques have been helping. Our Dr's have =
been
> > wonderful in explaining what is wrong and through =
listening to all of
> > these great people on the list and =
doing research ourselves we have
> > come up with different =
things that really help. Judi
> > ----------
> > > =
From: bibow <bibow(AT)concentric.net>
> > > To: Gunny0011 <Gunny0011(AT)aol.com>; =
tmic-list(AT)eskimo.com
> > > Subject: Re: Magnets and Other =
Magical Tricks
> > > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 8:29 =
AM
> > >
> > > This is pretty funny.......... =
you're not willing to listen to a
> > medial
> > > =
doctor's (neurologist?) guesses and strategies, but you have no
> =
> problems
> > > coming up with theories and remedies =
yourself!
> > > To follow that logic, you should also trust =
yourself to diagnose
> > your PC
> > > when it =
stops working, because it was fixed before by a computer
> > =
> technician but it broke again. Wow........
> > > =
I still am dumbfounded by the general jest that modern medicine =
&
> > > science is uninterested and/or incapable in =
helping solving the TM
> > > puzzle, and that somehow we =
need to find our own methods of
> > treatment.
> > =
> Sure, we all have different "tricks" that work for us, =
but it is
> > > unreasonable to look for confidence in =
hocus-pocus. Before you all
> > get
> > > bent out =
of shape over the inadequacies of modern medicine and
> > =
science,
> > > please answer my question: where would human =
health stand were it
> > not
> > > for research and =
science? Would you prefer we go back to blood
> > =
letting
> > > or maybe healing by prayer?
> > =
>
> > > Besides, your improvement/recovery is typical for =
people diagnosed
> > with
> > > TM. But it is of =
course your right to contribute it to sticking
> > =
magnets
> > > in your shorts! LOL
> > =
>
> > > All The Best,
> > > Martin
> =
> >
> > > Personally, I think our best bet is to work =
with international input
> > > from medicine & science, =
make sure we get multiple opinions, and
> > combine
> =
> > that information with our own reasoning to come up with what =
makes
> > > sense. But most importantly: Every day remind =
yourself that life
> > goes
> > > on, making it =
worth living and making damn sure we identify
> > ourselves =
as
> > > anything but "victims" of anything. Shit =
happens, but so does
> > happiness.
> > >
> =
Now wait a minute, here.
> I have no idea what you all are =
talking about. There seems to be this
> fiction circulating =
among atheists that somehow people turn to God when
> tragedy =
happens; they get "Scared into Religion" as someone so
> =
eloquently put it. This may be true, but isn't it a straw man? =
Aren't
> you saying that fear motivates these people; when =
fear is removed, the
> religiosity will vanish as well; therefore, =
there is no God?
> This, as I'm sure you are aware, is a =
fallacy of logic.
> I came to believe in God when I was 16 =
years old. I was a drug-abuser,
> a gang member, and a =
member of a "family." I didn't need any crutch,
> =
and not much scares me. Not even TM. No one did (or could) =
manipulate
> me, or scare me, into becoming a Christian. I =
decided to believe.
> Soon after, I suffered an asthma =
attack during which my HR was over
> 300, my ETCO2 was 80, BP =
showed "error," and I was dead when I reached
> the =
hospital. That's dead. Kaput. No heart rate. No pulse =
or
> cardio-eloctrologram. Flatliner. My dad, who had =
rushed to the
> hospital, came in the room when the docs were =
about to pack it up. He
> prayed for me. And now, here =
I sit.
> Or maybe I'm just silly.
> Maybe what =
really should have happened was that one of those stupid
> doctors =
should have laid a magnet on my chest and chanted a few bars of
> =
"It's Magic." Instead, they told me that it was a =
miracle. The doctors
> told me. And they were pretty =
much all atheists...up to that point.
> Yes, this is =
unusually caustic. But you say it's "silly" to pray, =
yet
> sensible to trust a chunk of molecularly aligned ferrous =
oxide? Just
> goes to show that we all have our =
gods.
>
> Steve
>